Blue Wall Continues To Crumble Around Chauvin

He testified, as I noted a bit ago, that sitting on the neck indefinitely is not policy, that as soon as he was subdued he should have been let up... I wonder if that "somebody" I was talking to earlier will recognize that policy is not to just sit on folks after they have been subdued or if he'll double down.
 
Althea said:
Asked and answered.


Yes. Opinion indeed. The casual nature (hands in pockets) exhibited by Chauvin makes him a cold blooded murderer. He wasn't leaning against the car with one hand as a precautionary measure. He murdered Floyd as he lay there begging for his life. There is no room for opinion here, but you are certainly free to debate that as you have no other avenue.
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Typical snotty, closed-minded SJW attitude.


:dunno:
 
The police are taking heat across the nation for abusing minorities. They do not want to police a city with such low expectations from the citizens. Chauvin being found guilty would make things a bit better. If they stop the abuse, they get can gain respect back that their own actions wasted. People do not want to fear the police will abuse them.
 
Nordberg said:
The police are taking heat across the nation for abusing minorities. They do not want to police a city with such low expectations from the citizens. Chauvin being found guilty would make things a bit better. If they stop the abuse, they get can gain respect back that their own actions wasted. People do not want to fear the police will abuse them.
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All testimony stated Chauvin's use of force was wrong and not justified.
 
Controlled Opposition said:
Me too. It just seems out of character for Christie to wish violence on someone.
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Again...I saw it as a specific response to the snippet that she bolded. Some people opt to redact everything in the quote that they don't feel is pertinent to their response. Some people just bold what they feel is pertinent.

Chauvin can rot in hell for all I care. There is no room for a modicum of compassion for him, as he offered Floyd none. Eye for an eye, as it were. I am watching the trial with great interest though, as it will be a canary in the coal mine with respect to whether society is moving forward, or continuing to regress.

The last 4 years have set us back to the last century with respect to civil rights...by design.
 
Althea said:
Again...I saw it as a specific response to the snippet that she bolded. Some people opt to redact everything in the quote that they don't feel is pertinent to their response. Some people just bold what they feel is pertinent.

Chauvin can rot in hell for all I care. There is no room for a modicum of compassion for him, as he offered Floyd none. Eye for an eye, as it were. I am watching the trial with great interest though, as it will be a canary in the coal mine with respect to whether society is moving forward, or continuing to regress.

The last 4 years have set us back to the last century with respect to civil rights...by design.
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What is your opinion of Floyd?
 
Nordberg said:
The police are taking heat across the nation for abusing minorities. They do not want to police a city with such low expectations from the citizens. Chauvin being found guilty would make things a bit better. If they stop the abuse, they get can gain respect back that their own actions wasted. People do not want to fear the police will abuse them.
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The problem with that is, when it gets to the point where the police have to be all nice and polite and reluctant to use force, people will stop fearing what might happen if they defy them. The public will lose all respect for police authority and ability to maintain order.

That is already happening.

Eventually it will get to the point where people just ignore their commands, especially in crowd control situations.

This creates a conundrum.

Do we want law and order or do we want toothless police departments?

We cannot have both.

Law enforcement is a rough business and criminals tend to be rough people.

Occasionally, mistakes will be made by the people whose job it is to deal with the dregs and assholes of society every day. We have to expect that.

After awhile, it must get difficult to differentiate.

The unfortunate reality that our own human nature creates for us, is that fear begets respect.

If the populace does not have a certain amount of fear for authority they will not respect it and will not obey it.

Disagree all you want, but AFAIC, it is the truth.
 
PoliTalker said:
I can't believe there was already a relationship between Chauvin and Floyd, but the court won't allow that to be considered.

If there was previous disagreement between them, that could be a motive right there.
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Even though they worked as the same club, I believe Floyd was outside, and Chauvin was inside. Further, Chauvin was considered to be over aggressive at work.

Still, there is no way that Chauvin didn't know who Floyd is.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,



It's not going to be allowed in the trial, but Chauvin had been investigated internally within the force something like 20 times.

Seems like he had a bad habit if blowing off department procedure.
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Investigations happen. They're like lawsuits; someone filed one. IIRC, he was only reprimanded twice and has been awarded three commendations. Were the commendations allowed into court?

Only those working close to him would know if he's been like this for awhile or if his behavior took a turn toward the negative. People have been known to react negatively at work due to stresses in their personal life.

The Holmes-Rahe Stress Inventory was used by the USAF in the 1990s. Naval Aviation only had a limit of 100 flight hours when a mandatory medical assessment had to be made by a Flight Surgeon. The Holmes-Rahe Stress Inventory is one tool for evaluating people in high stress, Life & Death work environments. Perhaps all police officers should be evaluated monthly with such a short exam.

https://www.stress.org/holmes-rahe-stress-inventory

https://www.stress.org/holmes-rahe-stress-inventory-pdf

https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTCS_82.htm
 
Nomad said:
Why?

I didn't take that kind snooty, self-righteous style of attitude with you.

I just stated what I thought without getting all snarky and offended.
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If you believe that 'debating' based on opinion is a substitute for facts, then you are left with nothing but your opinion. Which is what I stated.

I don't believe it's snarky. Truthfully, the prosecution doesn't even need witnesses. They could play the video in a loop.
 
Althea said:
Even though they worked as the same club, I believe Floyd was outside, and Chauvin was inside. Further, Chauvin was considered to be over aggressive at work.

Still, there is no way that Chauvin didn't know who Floyd is.
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There's a lot of room for error there. Chauvin worked there for 17 years, but Floyd there last year. Pre-COVID? They probably knew of each other, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence they knew each other.

https://www.newsweek.com/derek-chauvin-george-floyd-worked-together-relationship-1579431
"Chauvin was our off-duty police for almost the entirety of the 17 years that we were open," Maya Santamaria, former owner of El Nuevo Rodeo in south Minneapolis told Minneapolis and St. Paul's ABC-affiliate KSTP.

While Floyd and Chauvin may have worked together, Santamaria admitted she could not say for certain if the two knew each other as several off-duty officers served as security guards.

"They were working together at the same time, it's just that Chauvin worked outside and the security guards were inside."
 
Nomad said:
What is your opinion of Floyd?
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My opinion of Floyd is based on the evidence I've seen. I saw him on video for an extended period of time just before he was murdered. He was active (dancing at one point) and addressing a number of people around him. He didn't appear to be in a drug induced stupor, as the defense suggests.

Other than that, I now know that he was a pill head along with his girlfriend. Whereas they both claimed to be 'working' toward cleaning up, I find that to be nonsense. Some are offering his past criminal record as evidence that he deserved to be murdered.

I disagree.
 
Nomad said:
The problem with that is, when it gets to the point where the police have to be all nice and polite and reluctant to use force, people will stop fearing what might happen if they defy them. The public will lose all respect for police authority and ability to maintain order.

That is already happening.

Eventually it will get to the point where people just ignore their commands, especially in crowd control situations.

This creates a conundrum.

Do we want law and order or do we want toothless police departments?

We cannot have both.

Law enforcement is a rough business and criminals tend to be rough people.

Occasionally, mistakes will be made by the people whose job it is to deal with the dregs and assholes of society every day. We have to expect that.

After awhile, it must get difficult to differentiate.

The unfortunate reality that our own human nature creates for us, is that fear begets respect.

If the populace does not have a certain amount of fear for authority they will not respect it and will not obey it.

Disagree all you want, but AFAIC, it is the truth.
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There is a chasm between the two ends of the spectrum you offer here.

This thread is about the murder of Floyd, who was begging for his life and telling the cops 'you win'.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
There's a lot of room for error there. Chauvin worked there for 17 years, but Floyd there last year. Pre-COVID? They probably knew of each other, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence they knew each other.

https://www.newsweek.com/derek-chauvin-george-floyd-worked-together-relationship-1579431
"Chauvin was our off-duty police for almost the entirety of the 17 years that we were open," Maya Santamaria, former owner of El Nuevo Rodeo in south Minneapolis told Minneapolis and St. Paul's ABC-affiliate KSTP.

While Floyd and Chauvin may have worked together, Santamaria admitted she could not say for certain if the two knew each other as several off-duty officers served as security guards.

"They were working together at the same time, it's just that Chauvin worked outside and the security guards were inside."
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It was made clear that they barely knew each other, but I find it hard to believe that two people who were security staff didn't know of each other's existence.
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
Investigations happen. They're like lawsuits; someone filed one. IIRC, he was only reprimanded twice and has been awarded three commendations. Were the commendations allowed into court?

Only those working close to him would know if he's been like this for awhile or if his behavior took a turn toward the negative. People have been known to react negatively at work due to stresses in their personal life.

The Holmes-Rahe Stress Inventory was used by the USAF in the 1990s. Naval Aviation only had a limit of 100 flight hours when a mandatory medical assessment had to be made by a Flight Surgeon. The Holmes-Rahe Stress Inventory is one tool for evaluating people in high stress, Life & Death work environments. Perhaps all police officers should be evaluated monthly with such a short exam.

https://www.stress.org/holmes-rahe-stress-inventory

https://www.stress.org/holmes-rahe-stress-inventory-pdf

https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTCS_82.htm
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good idea. And cover them with body cams that cannot be turned off.
 
Althea said:
It was made clear that they barely knew each other, but I find it hard to believe that two people who were security staff didn't know of each other's existence.
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Do you believe it has relevance to Chauvin's crimes and procedural violations? Are you saying there was premeditation?
 
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